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Caine 607
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.20 21:01:00 -
[1]
Forgive my ignorance but the concept of 'Game Time Codes' is a new one to me.
As I understand it, an individual can purchase these aforementioned 'codes' for real life, honest-to-god sweaty cash then use them to extend their play-time by certain pre-defined durations according to the value of the code.
You can imagine my suprise then, when I found out that these 'GTC's' can (and apparently are) be(ing) exchanged in-game for ISK... ???? Not only that but apparently this nefarious business, which goes against the very core ideology to which CCP claims to subscribe (referring specifically to the general concept of ISK-pharming), is fully endorsed by CCP.
Now I realise I'm clearly behind with the times and this topic has doubtless circled the forums on countless occassions but it seems to me that this is an issue that really has to be addressed at some point in the near future if only because it conflicts with the very spirit of the game. Why only a few minutes ago I read a thread that had been published by a victim of an ISK selling swindle easing his conscience by confessing to his apparent transgression however...
Perhaps more suprising than the inconceivable honesty of the aforementioned individual is the ferocity with which he was reprimanded by his EVE peers and yet one individual after hitching a ride on the flame-wagon then proceeded to remind him that GTC's were a much better bet because they weren't in violation of the EULA (or words to that effect).
I can't be the only one that is willing to acknowledge this blatent act of duplicity. No matter how I look at it, it just seems like legitimate ISK-pharming to me... the only difference is that process of converting $ or ú to ISK requires one additional step and that the recipients of said cash gain a monopoly. Brown envelopes spring to mind.
I have been scraping a living together since I started this game approximately 2 years ago doing missions and hauling cargo where so ever the opportunities arose in a desperate effort to quench my irrepressable desire to procure unjustiably expensive faction mods and other minor extravagances, all the while, comforted by the presumption that the only way to make large sums of cash was to earn it... apparently not so... all I have to do is order a few time codes and sell them off for ISK...
I don't like ranting and I try to avoid it where ever possible but this issue just seems so absurdly and conspicuously wrong that I had to express my dissaproval. Anyway, I shall continue to play the game regardless but until this issue is resolved, I shall never again play with the same degree of satisfaction.
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Caine 607
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.20 21:13:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Estel Arador
You can't convert it to cash since the only allowed way of buying GTCs for isk immediately adds the time to your account - so you can't sell the GTC for cash, you can only use it to extend your own account.
Aaahhh... Thank you for the clarification Estel, as I say, I'm new to the whole GTC concept but suggestions from other forum posts were perhaps a little misleading. I apologise for jumping to conclusions.
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Caine 607
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.20 21:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Malcanis
I don't like GTC selling that much, but on the other hand, some of my best friends in the game wouldn't be able to play if it wasn't for GTC selling.
It is less destructive than RMT isk selling, since at least CCP get the money and it enables more people to play.
Right, sorry but I think I'm getting the grasp of this slowly... Am I correct in assuming then that the only benefactors in real economic terms are CCP ? If so, who benefits from the ISK part of the transaction ?
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Caine 607
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.20 22:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Caine 607 on 20/10/2007 22:17:05
Originally by: Tamia Clant
Player A buys GTC -> CCP gets RL money
Player A sells GTC to Player B for ISK -> Player A gets ISK, Player B gets extended subscription
The only flaw is that people can still use their RL wallets to gain an edge in-game, but the system allows people that can't pay the subscription a way to play. (and maybe even get more accounts) It also does direct competition with the illegal ISK sellers.
Thank you Tamia,
Your simple illustration was just the edification I was looking for. Sadly however, it does confirm what I first suspected - that CCP has to all intents and purposes endorsed a form of isk-pharming and whilst I acknowledge your point about it being an alternative way to retain membership on EVE, I can't quite bring myself to see the isk-pharmer argument as a justification.
I suppose it all comes down to the fact that I don't like ambiguities in 'gameplay ethics' if you will. It looks more like a case of cutting off ones nose to spite one's face - in this case, I heard various arguments supporting CCP's time code practise on the basis that it undermines the ISK-pharmer mentality but in RL terms wouldn't it be more analogous to a government supplementing it's revenue by duplicitously selling drugs and prohibiting private sales, thereby inadvertantly blurring the fundamental issue in question - discouraging drug use all together ?
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Caine 607
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.20 22:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Asimov Andies
Just pointing out here.
The US politicians are given large sums of money to supplement their wallets from pharmaceutical companies to keep them from passing laws that would hurt said companies. So while your example is not exactly duplicated in RL, there are very similar instances going on.
A very astute point Asimov !
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Caine 607
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.20 22:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Caine 607 on 20/10/2007 23:01:42
Originally by: Asimov Andies
...As well, like I staited, said seller might work a 50-60 hour week at work where the normal person works a 40 hour week and others work even less, so you get to play more than me meaning you can gather that ISK much quicker than I, so to balance it, I can sell a GTC using my additional income to put me back on a "level" playing field...
I can see what your saying Asimov, but isn't that simply a case of having your two cakes and eating them. If an individual chooses to go to work in order to procure the obvious benefits derived thereof whilst another individual either can't or chooses not to work but instead spends an innordinate amount of time gleaning some degree of satisfaction from earning their virtual equivalent currency in ISK then that is a conscious decision they chose but making them mutually beneficial whereby the 'worker' can bypass hours or days or EVE play buy purchasing ISK from the 'gamer' who in turn can continue to support his/her EVE habit by selling their hard earned ISK for extended gameplay, somehow I feel it detracts from the game !
Originally by: Malovich
...Going back to our illegal drug analogy: it's more akin to the government denouncing people who sell drugs illegally on the street while selling untainted drugs in a controlled, doctor-monitored facility and using the proceeds to fund drug education and rehab programs. Again, not the perfect option...but better than some.
A very nice analogy Malovich, I applaud you but EVE is unlike the real world in as many respects. Perhaps most notably in the fact that it is an enclosed universe and is subject to controls implemented by the great CCP machine. Perhaps it's more akin to a township with a walled perimeter - the town council dissaproves of drugs and has taken steps to quell but not eradicate the selling of said drugs (by independent vendors)...
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